January 25, 2005
ARGUMENT AD SULLIVANIUM: AN ARGUMENT SO POWERFUL IT DRIVES ONE TO THE OTHER POLAR EXTREME
AND NOW IT'S NORMAL (The Daily Dish, andrewsullivan.com, 1/25/05)
Military abuse and torture of detainees may be more widespread than the official reports have found. Why? Because many incidents haven't been reported. One case, uncovered by the ACLU, actually involved a death in U.S. custody that wasn't recorded at the time. When it surfaced, the case was closed for lack of evidence. If actual deaths are ignored, can you imagine how many Bybee-authorized torture cases we don't know about? Here's an example of a case where only minor punishments were meted out:An officer in the 20th Field Artillery Battalion deployed in Taji, for example, was given an unspecified nonjudicial punishment and fined $2,500 after he admitted to threatening to kill an Iraqi, firing a pistol next to the man's head, placing the man's head in a barrel, and watching as members of his unit pummeled the man's chest and face. One of those who administered the beating told investigators that the officer "had given us a talk about how some circumstances bring about extra force." Another said the officer told them after it was over: "This night stays within" the unit. "We all gave a hooah" before parting, the soldier said. The document indicates that four soldiers received suspended nonjudicial punishments and small fines, while a decision on a fifth soldier was pending.
Hey, sometimes "military necessity" requires you to pummel a detainee. That's what the president said, wasn't it? In that memo distributed as part of the war-plan. And he's promoted all the architects of that policy, right? And no Republicans are going to complain, are they? Torture is, after all, an integral part of the expansion of freedom across the globe. Hooah.
Andrew Sullivan is single-handedly driving me to a pro-torture position, in which torture is good in-and-of-itself. Just for the record, though, forbidding torture is not a backdoor method of approving it, the Bybee memo did not authorize torture, our opponents are scum and sometimes the context does make a difference.
Posted by David Cohen at January 25, 2005 01:00 PM
I fear that a different presidential position on homosexual "marriage" would have brought about another judgement on treatment of prisoners.
That said, we must remember that this sort of thing may not be subjected to the light of day. The Dershowitz position that somehow courts should be involved is out of the question. Whether or not abortion is between a woman and her doctor, extraordinary interrogation must remain a matter between the intel officer and his helo crew chief.
In Iraq, we now have the option of letting the Iraqis themsevles take care of the interogations, which would leave critics demading that the U.S. userp Iraqi sovergnty to handle the terrorists if they think they're still being mistreated. As for Guantanamo, the military probably needs to do a video of U.S. interogators questioning the Islamic militants about their views on gay marriage. That might quiet Sullivan down for a while.
Perhaps if the prisoners were "offered" homosexual encounters in private quarters, then Andrew would heartily approve. I am sure there are plenty of current inmates in various state prisons who would agree to participate, thus showing their tolerance for foreigners.
David -
In a similar vein, Thomas Frank is writing in the The New Republic that the numbskull left is actually driving him rightwards:
"But the more I heard, the more I became convinced that I had discovered something truly threatening: This band of socialists was the most effective recruiting tool for the Republican Party I'd ever encountered."
And also:
"These weren't harmless lefties. I didn't want Nancy Pelosi talking sense to them; I wanted John Ashcroft to come busting through the wall with a submachine gun to round everyone up for an immediate trip to Gitmo, with Charles Graner on hand for interrogation."
Andrew who? Never heard of the guy.
I took Sullivan off my bookmarks long ago. This whole thing has something to do with some set of inner demons that I do not want to know about.
Greg: you better off.
If Mr. Sullivan thinks forming naked male pyramids is torture, perhaps he should divulge how many he's personally been part of.
